Comments on: Malachi 3.10 – Subverting the Faith http://knowingthetimes.com/malachi-3-10-subverting-the-faith/ A BOLD FRESH LOOK AT END-TIME PROPHECY AND OTHER STUFF Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:14:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: john clayton http://knowingthetimes.com/malachi-3-10-subverting-the-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-1241 john clayton Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:33:31 +0000 http://knowingthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1241 Doctrine, especially commandments, are made from words of the bible rightly divided in context, not from speculation, sentiment, imagination, nor air. We have a new covenant made w/better promises. All of our commandments are contained there. The law,and Mal is intrinsic to the law, was given uniquely to Israel to make them unique, a holy nation separated unto God. Gentiles were not given the law. Abram had no law but secular. We are dead to the law. We are redeemed from the curse of the law, so if we are under the curse, we can't be redeemed. If we are redeemed, we can't be cursed. If one keeps one point of the law, which he can't, he is a debtor to it all. If he keeps it all but misses in one point of the 613, then he is cursed. To the extent that you embrace the law, you are blinded to grace. Going tot the law frustrates grace, is going away from the finished work of the cross, and the law is not of faith. W/o faith it is impossible to please God. The preaching of the law is not of faith. The law is the ministry of condemnation and death. At the cross, at the cross, where I first saw the light... The preaching of the law does subvert the faith. It appeals to human nature. The law had no means of changing human nature any more than a yardstick can make you taller. Doctrine, especially commandments, are made from words of the bible rightly divided in context, not from speculation, sentiment, imagination, nor air. We have a new covenant made w/better promises. All of our commandments are contained there. The law,and Mal is intrinsic to the law, was given uniquely to Israel to make them unique, a holy nation separated unto God. Gentiles were not given the law. Abram had no law but secular. We are dead to the law. We are redeemed from the curse of the law, so if we are under the curse, we can’t be redeemed. If we are redeemed, we can’t be cursed. If one keeps one point of the law, which he can’t, he is a debtor to it all. If he keeps it all but misses in one point of the 613, then he is cursed. To the extent that you embrace the law, you are blinded to grace. Going tot the law frustrates grace, is going away from the finished work of the cross, and the law is not of faith. W/o faith it is impossible to please God. The preaching of the law is not of faith. The law is the ministry of condemnation and death. At the cross, at the cross, where I first saw the light… The preaching of the law does subvert the faith. It appeals to human nature. The law had no means of changing human nature any more than a yardstick can make you taller.

]]> By: Jagger http://knowingthetimes.com/malachi-3-10-subverting-the-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-1085 Jagger Tue, 04 May 2010 15:44:56 +0000 http://knowingthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-1085 I love this discussion! I have been a teacher of the tithe for many years, only because I was lead by the "blind" into the teaching. And we all know that if the blind lead the blind then both fall into the ditch. I really wasn't interested in falling into the ditch(pit). I've heard the tithe taught even in the garden(God's tree being the tithe). There is little teaching on the totality of migration from OT to NT covenant. Sadly, but the yearly sin offering of the OT is now happening every 7 days(Sunday), for many but not all. It's so sad how Authoritarian/Dictators have assumed positions in leadership and have changed Christianity into Churchianity! I've also seen Mat 23:23 used talking of the scribes and Pharisees paying tithe of Anise, Cumin and mint. Jesus said," These ye ought to have done...". What folks don't understand is that they were under the law when He told them this. I get the same garbage with demon possession and Christians. People say that if "Born-Again" Peter can have a demon then all of us can. Well, Peter wasn't born-again because Christ had not yet died and been resurrected. The knowledge is increasing as was prophesied and there will be a great dissension between true believers and OT saints in a NT world. I love this discussion! I have been a teacher of the tithe for many years, only because I was lead by the “blind” into the teaching. And we all know that if the blind lead the blind then both fall into the ditch. I really wasn’t interested in falling into the ditch(pit). I’ve heard the tithe taught even in the garden(God’s tree being the tithe). There is little teaching on the totality of migration from OT to NT covenant. Sadly, but the yearly sin offering of the OT is now happening every 7 days(Sunday), for many but not all. It’s so sad how Authoritarian/Dictators have assumed positions in leadership and have changed Christianity into Churchianity! I’ve also seen Mat 23:23 used talking of the scribes and Pharisees paying tithe of Anise, Cumin and mint. Jesus said,” These ye ought to have done…”. What folks don’t understand is that they were under the law when He told them this. I get the same garbage with demon possession and Christians. People say that if “Born-Again” Peter can have a demon then all of us can. Well, Peter wasn’t born-again because Christ had not yet died and been resurrected. The knowledge is increasing as was prophesied and there will be a great dissension between true believers and OT saints in a NT world.

]]> By: John Wiertzema http://knowingthetimes.com/malachi-3-10-subverting-the-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-930 John Wiertzema Sat, 06 Mar 2010 05:12:36 +0000 http://knowingthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-930 Well my answer is no! And yes, I am a generous towards others, but tithing free lover of God. Those under the law were obligated by God to tithe, and yes, their tithes belonged to God. But Kyle, I am dead, and my life is hid with Christ in God.(Col.3.3) I am not my own, I am bought with a price.(1 Cor. 6.20) The life that I now live I live by the faith of the son of God.(Gal. 2.20) In my giving I'm led by the Spirit, and if I'm led by the Spirit, I am not under the law.(Gal. 5.18) I have been called unto freedom; only I use not my freedom as an occasion to the flesh, but by love I serve my brothers.(Gal. 5.13) The blessing does not come from the tithe my friend, it comes through faith in Christ. The blessing of Abraham is mine and yours through Christ's work, not ours, and we receive this promise of the Spirit through faith.(Gal.3.13-14) The OT servants of God followed rules, the NT sons of God follow the Spirit. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.(Rom. 8.14) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.(Gal. 5.18) Abraham looked forward to this day, when Christ's work would secure the blessing. He saw it and was glad (John 8.56), yet you are compelled to turn away from the thing he greatly desired and look back to his day. We are in Christ, not Abraham. As Jesus said, "begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father." (Luke 3.8) We have many teachers among us today, just as Paul did, who spoil the gospel by bringing believers under the condemnation of the law. Hear what Paul had to say of these men. "For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain . . . Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth." (Titus 1.10-14) Well my answer is no! And yes, I am a generous towards others, but tithing free lover of God. Those under the law were obligated by God to tithe, and yes, their tithes belonged to God.
But Kyle, I am dead, and my life is hid with Christ in God.(Col.3.3) I am not my own, I am bought with a price.(1 Cor. 6.20) The life that I now live I live by the faith of the son of God.(Gal. 2.20) In my giving I’m led by the Spirit, and if I’m led by the Spirit, I am not under the law.(Gal. 5.18) I have been called unto freedom; only I use not my freedom as an occasion to the flesh, but by love I serve my brothers.(Gal. 5.13)
The blessing does not come from the tithe my friend, it comes through faith in Christ. The blessing of Abraham is mine and yours through Christ’s work, not ours, and we receive this promise of the Spirit through faith.(Gal.3.13-14)
The OT servants of God followed rules, the NT sons of God follow the Spirit. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.(Rom. 8.14) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.(Gal. 5.18)
Abraham looked forward to this day, when Christ’s work would secure the blessing. He saw it and was glad (John 8.56), yet you are compelled to turn away from the thing he greatly desired and look back to his day. We are in Christ, not Abraham. As Jesus said, “begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father.” (Luke 3.8)

We have many teachers among us today, just as Paul did, who spoil the gospel by bringing believers under the condemnation of the law. Hear what Paul had to say of these men.
“For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain . . . Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.” (Titus 1.10-14)

]]> By: Kyle s http://knowingthetimes.com/malachi-3-10-subverting-the-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-929 Kyle s Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:26:09 +0000 http://knowingthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-929 Does this mean you believe the tithe no longer belongs to God? Tithing is only bondage for those who tithe under a commandment to tithe, but the blessings(what the bible calls blessing, not me) comes through the tithe given out of love. Christ is the high preist and praise God he is still receiving tithe today! Just like all other High Priest in the pass. The only difference is that he receives tithing through love. We do have commandments in the new testiment. We are not lawsless. Our new commandment is to love God. Do you think you can stil not tithe and still be loving God? Can you do that? So I ask again... Does the tithe belong to God or does it not? It's hard for me to believe that you answer is "no". Does this mean you believe the tithe no longer belongs to God?
Tithing is only bondage for those who tithe under a commandment to tithe, but the blessings(what the bible calls blessing, not me) comes through the tithe given out of love. Christ is the high preist and praise God he is still receiving tithe today! Just like all other High Priest in the pass. The only difference is that he receives tithing through love.
We do have commandments in the new testiment. We are not lawsless. Our new commandment is to love God.
Do you think you can stil not tithe and still be loving God? Can you do that?
So I ask again… Does the tithe belong to God or does it not?
It’s hard for me to believe that you answer is “no”.

]]> By: John Wiertzema http://knowingthetimes.com/malachi-3-10-subverting-the-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-928 John Wiertzema Fri, 05 Mar 2010 15:09:16 +0000 http://knowingthetimes.com/?p=912#comment-928 Kyle, You cannot honor God by dishonoring Christ. If you really believe that "the blessing," as you call it, is obtained by keeping the law or by tithing, then what do you need Christ for; or if you seek the benefits of keeping the law, Christ shall benefit you nothing. (Christ is become of no effect unto you who are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. Gal. 5.4) Did you know that not all of the Jews were required to tithe? Jesus, Peter, John and the others never did. It was for those who were farmers; not all were. How does a carpenter or a fisherman tithe on all of those wheat fields he doesn't have? You willingly burden yourself with a yoke of bondage you were never meant to carry, nor are you able. (Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Gal. 5.1) You have a heart to give, and that's a wonderful thing. Just seek out the pattern that Paul encourages in the NT. You won't find him point to the law or to tithing, but rather, away from it. Kyle,

You cannot honor God by dishonoring Christ. If you really believe that “the blessing,” as you call it, is obtained by keeping the law or by tithing, then what do you need Christ for; or if you seek the benefits of keeping the law, Christ shall benefit you nothing. (Christ is become of no effect unto you who are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. Gal. 5.4)
Did you know that not all of the Jews were required to tithe? Jesus, Peter, John and the others never did. It was for those who were farmers; not all were. How does a carpenter or a fisherman tithe on all of those wheat fields he doesn’t have? You willingly burden yourself with a yoke of bondage you were never meant to carry, nor are you able. (Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Gal. 5.1) You have a heart to give, and that’s a wonderful thing. Just seek out the pattern that Paul encourages in the NT. You won’t find him point to the law or to tithing, but rather, away from it.

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